I would venture that many of the people in prison today are there because of suffering that began in childhood. The carnal nature hates suffering. Suffering produces anger and anger predisposes people to rebel against authority in general and humanity in particular. On the other hand, pain has been used for centuries to force people into submission. Since wicked people are not interested in a system of justice, torture is their best tool because it is a powerful force that drives a human being toward submission.
We cannot totally appreciate the sufferings of Christ at the deeper level because our carnal nature has not been removed, but this will change. Patiently living among sinners and dealing with the selfishness, blindness and arrogance of the human heart was very hard — even for Jesus. However, Jesus was made perfect in patience through suffering. He faced the tenacious power and degenerate influence of sin every day. Jesus learned how to receive grace from God as it was needed each day, and this is how suffering perfected His patience.
Patience is how Abraham and Sarah failed when they decided Abraham should have a son by Hagar. Patience is how Moses failed when he killed the Egyptian. He had to spend forty years herding sheep in the wilderness before God could use him. Patience is how Moses failed when he struck the rock twice and God refused to let Moses enter the promised land. Patience is the hardest thing on Earth to perfect! Through faith in God and patience in suffering, Jesus overcame the world. Perseverance must finish its work so that you may be mature and complete [perfect] , not lacking anything.
They will suffer most because a they will be the first to be sealed, and b they will have an overwhelming task to accomplish.
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Because they will have sinless natures, it will be painful for them to deal with the power and presence of sin. Their burden for souls, their frustration with the power of sin, and their love for Jesus and sinners will cause deep anguish within the , Like the shepherd looking for that one lost sheep, the , will exhaust every physical and emotional fiber in their being to find one last soul so that person can be saved from the jaws of sin.
If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints. Because the , will faithfully endure the sufferings of Jesus with success, no other person will be able to sing their song. The sixth specification concerning the , is that no lie or falsehood will be found in their mouths. Revelation Again, the topic of the , is like an iceberg — one third of this topic is above the water line and two-thirds are below. This particular specification goes far below the water line. In this sense, the , will be no different than anyone else going to Heaven!
After the , are sealed, the Great Tribulation will begin with a global earthquake. The , will polarize the people of Earth with their speech. People who love truth will follow their lead. People who hate truth will produce every reason why the , should be silenced. The , will fearlessly declare the Word of God regardless of personal consequences. Because they will not take up arms to fight and because they will not run from their post, their brazen actions will be stunning and relentless.
When the Pharisees and Sadducees went out in the desert to see John the Baptist, pretending to be interested in his revival message, John quickly detected their hypocrisy and deceit. They were not interested in his message, they were spies sent from the temple.
Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. John the Baptist was to the first advent what the , will be to the second advent. The , will not blunt the double edged sword of truth by compromising their message. The Great Tribulation will not be a time for soft peddling the gospel. That day will be a valley of decision for multitudes.
Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. Hopefully, a picture is forming in your mind and heart. They will deliver the testimony of Jesus without concern for their safety. They will proclaim the terms and conditions of salvation and their message will not be compromised or varnished. They will openly call sin by its right name and the Holy Spirit will work signs and wonders through them, confirming their divine message.
Looking forward at their fiery assignment, these words in Revelation 22 will be particularly potent because there will be many who will reject or attempt to deflect their testimony. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. The Bible says the , will visibly wear the names of the Father and Son on their foreheads after they are taken to Heaven. Revelation ; Revelation , 4 John does not indicate the names of the Father and Son are written on crowns which are worn on their foreheads, although that might be possible.
Notice these two texts:. There are levels of authority in Heaven. For example, there are seven powerful angels that stand before God. Luke We know that Lucifer was anointed as a guardian cherub and he wore beautiful stones signifying his high rank. Ezekiel , 14 The , will also be highly exalted after they are taken to Heaven. Their exalted position will be noticed every time we look on their faces. We have a similar way of exalting authority on Earth. Military officers have worn their rank on their foreheads hats and helmets for centuries. Field grade officers in the United States military are distinguished above lower grades by the gold webbing that is located on the brims of their hats.
This gold webbing is designed to be visible at a distance because a field grade officer merits a higher level of attention and respect from his subordinates. Many Christians tend to overlook the importance of the names of the Father and Son written on the foreheads of the , This specification is highly important because there is an evil parallel. The Bible indicates the devil will establish his kingdom on Earth during the sixth trumpet. After killing one-third of mankind, he will require his loyal survivors to wear a mark. This calls for wisdom. His number is The mark of the beast is worn on the right hand or on the forehead.
The parallel is obvious. Satan will counterfeit the , with , of his own servants. Of course, the , will not wear the signatures of the Father and Son on their foreheads before they go to Heaven, but they will be highly exalted after they get to Heaven for declaring the truth about the devil and his deceptions under most distressing circumstances.
Throughout eternity, the saints will see the , and each time we see them, we will remember their total devotion and sacrifices for the calling of Jesus. Note: If, out of curiosity, you have jumped over the other specifications to read this one first, I hope you will be sure to read the other seven specifications in their order because there is a progressive order to this presentation on the , The Bible clearly indicates that the , will be Jews, coming from the twelve tribes of Israel.
There is an important difference between being a member of the Jewish race and being a Jew. The bottom line is this: The , will be descendants of Abraham! But, the , will not necessarily be members of the Jewish race. The , will come from every race of people! Furthermore, the Bible says the numberless multitude that go through the great tribulation will come from all nations, kindreds, tongues and people.
God promised Abraham that he would be the father of many nations and Revelation 7 affirms this! Because the numberless multitude will be multinational, the firstfruits of the same harvest the , will be multinational. Remember, firstfruits are a sample of the coming harvest! There is no question that the , will come from the twelve tribes of Israel. The problem that many Christians do not understand is the identity of Israel.
The New Testament teaches that God redefined Israel at the end of the seventieth week when it became evident that Israel would not accept His Son and fulfill their calling as a holy nation of priests. When the seventy weeks expired, the apostle Paul was converted A. Through the revelations God gave him, we have confirmation of this truth. Many Bible writers point to the redefinition of Israel.
God made several unconditional covenants with Abraham, and He will keep them. We have examined eight specifications about the , I have presented the following conclusions:. Through the years, I have been asked various questions about the , that you may want to consider. God made some amazing promises to Abraham because God loved this man of faith. For example, God promised Abraham that through him, all the nations of Earth would be blessed. I look forward to the day when Jesus will call Abraham to His throne so that with his own eyes, the patriarch can see that indeed, he is the father of many nations!
God told the biological descendants of Abraham that they were to be trustees of the gospel and a nation of priests. Exodus 19 The apostle Paul and every Pharisee knew this. This may sound harsh, but this was not the first time God did this. God destroyed the first generation that came out of Egypt by keeping them in the wilderness for forty years so that another group of people could enter the promised land. God destroyed the city of Jerusalem through Nebuchadnezzar so that He could raise another group of people.
Later on, God destroyed Jerusalem again through Titus in A. The point is that God keeps destroying the rebellious and raising up another group of people to accomplish His promises. God raised up the Christian Church and it rebelled just like Israel. God raised up Protestants, and they have rebelled just like Israel. This is why God will select and empower 12, individuals from each tribe at the end. He will use a group of people that have nothing in common but a heart of faith.
By incorporating the twelve tribes into Revelation 7, God indicates that He is honoring the original promises He made to Abraham! The identity of the twelve tribes is unknown and unseen today. This is not a problem because God knows who His children are. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. Psychologists say there are four basic personalty traits: sanguine, melancholy, choleric and phlegmatic. Each person has a dominant trait and recessive traits.
The combinations of traits are said to produce twelve personality groups. See Genesis 49 and 1 Chronicles , If the twelve tribes reflect personality types, then God can use all twelve personality types to reach the diverse people of Earth because no one personality type is acceptable to everyone.
Each gate bears the name of a tribe and each foundation bears the name of an apostle. Revelation , 14 These features are quite revealing. The twelve foundations of the Holy City bear the names of the twelve apostles because the gospel of Christ was built on the Rock of Ages by the apostles! The twelve gates into the city are portals named after the twelve tribes because each gate could be an entry point for each personality type.
Our family structure in Heaven will be our tribe. Everyone will belong to a tribe! Everyone will belong to a wonderful family! This is a good question. If we consider the vast resources that some religious organizations have, it would seem foolish to ignore these agencies during the end time! But, here are six reasons why God cannot use them:. Because the properties of religion are very strong within the human race, because social relationships can be more important than commitment to truth, and because there is a distinction between serving God and serving the church, God will destroy the great religions of the world and test mankind to see if we love Him and His truth above everything else.
The test will be simple and will be applied without partiality. God will require everyone to leave his or her church for the sake of truth! The object of our deepest affection will then be revealed. At that time, some people will discover they loved their church more than they loved God!
Until this test of loyalty is applied, most people cannot understand the problem. The same is true today. We will see that many people cannot separate themselves from their church, even when presented with the plainest evidences of truth. To help us make up our minds, God will allow the devil to appear on Earth. The devil the Antichrist will dissolve all the religions of the world and forcibly create a new global church. On the other hand, people who are cowardly will prostitute their faith and join the newly created church because the devil will establish stringent laws so that everyone who refuses to join his church will be put to death.
It is interesting to note in this context that God considers cowardice as great a sin as murder and sexual immorality. Before leaving this question, one more comment should be made. Why does God use such a tiny number of people to proclaim the everlasting gospel during the end time? Given the fact that nearly six billion people now live on Earth, it seems that the work would be much easier if He chose one million or ten million people to accomplish his task.
By choosing such a tiny number, God will again demonstrate that He is not dependent on flesh to accomplish His purposes.
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Luke In Revelation 12, the story of the true church represented by a righteous woman who is pregnant and a great red dragon is told. The woman wears a crown of twelve stars on her head. From the Greek language, we learn that these stars are set in a stephanos, that is , a crown of victory. This crown is set with twelve stars. The twelve stars represent the , — firstfruits of the twelve tribes — who will be victorious over the Antichrist. I presume the , will be notified just like all of the prophets in the Bible were notified.
About the only thing the , have in common is their encounter with Jesus! Consider this parallel. In Revelation 10, John was given an open book and told to eat it. The book was sweet in his mouth and bitter in his stomach. Then, John was told to prophesy again before kings, nations, etc. He will give the , words to speak, otherwise, they would not know what to say.
Matthew The final proclamation of the gospel will not be a matter of human ability. God will give the words that He wants spoken to the , and the Holy Spirit will provide the power. Consider Ezekiel Like John, God gave Ezekiel a book to eat that was sweet in his mouth and bitter in his stomach. The book Ezekiel received contained the words that God wanted spoken. Ezekiel was told to speak these words to his people, whether they listen or not.
This is the bitter part in the stomach. Ezekiel had to speak the words of God and this created a lot of ridicule and offense. This explains why the life span of prophets is usually short. Of course, the enabling power within Ezekiel was the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit enabled Ezekiel to say and do things that were beyond mere human capability. Ezekiel and John were both called to be prophets and they were given words to speak.
This will be the experience of the , The , will be recognized by three means: First, their message will be Bible based. The , will proclaim the everlasting gospel from the Bible, and as a result, they will find themselves standing in opposition to religious leaders of their day. Second, the , will be recognized by their humility, simplicity and authority.
Remember John the Baptist with his humble dress? Luke People went out to the Jordan River to hear John the Baptist because he spoke with power and authority that came from Heaven! Luke People marveled at Jesus because of the authority with which He spoke. Of course, the servants of the devil will be doing miracles, too. Exodus ; Matthew Matthew On the other hand, if the Holy Spirit knows that a miracle will help an honest person make a decision for truth, then a miracle will be given. Many miracles will occur and they will force people to take sides.
This, of course, is how the sheep are separated from the goats. I believe the great earthquake and the empowerment of the , could occur any day now. The , will not show up on TV. They will not receive a round of applause or some glittering reward. However, when they show up you will know that Jesus has taken control of Earth and the final 1, days of Earth have begun. The , will not ride in limousines or have world fame.
God has people in every religious body whose hearts are right, but whose heads are wrong. John ; Romans When Jesus knocked Saul off his donkey in Acts 9, Jesus knew that Saul had a good heart, but his head was terribly messed up by his religion. Consider the fact that Saul was persecuting the saints when Jesus called him to take the gospel to the Gentiles.
My point is that, like Saul, the , will come from all religions.
Many people have good hearts toward God, and after they encounter Jesus and receive the words that He wants them to speak, they will be transformed, just as Saul became Paul! The net effect is simple. God wants to save as many people as possible. Therefore, God will have Moslem believers talking to their Moslem brothers; Catholic believers will be talking to their Catholic brothers; Hindu believers will be talking to their Hindu brothers, etc.
Who is better at proclaiming the gospel of Christ than those who know and understand the obstacles that face their brothers? Do you really think a Moslem would listen to a Protestant? Do you think a Jew would listen to a Baptist? The , will come from every nation, religion, language and tribe and after their encounter with Jesus, they will receive the script and speak His words to their brothers, just like Saul did!
This will ultimately produce what Jesus wants, a numberless multitude of saints who come from every nation, kindred, tongue and people! Probably not. The important thing is that no one will be able to say that their message was contrived by man. In other words, what is the possibility that a mere , people who are spread out over the face of Earth, speaking different languages, belonging to antagonistic religions, and not knowing one another, preach the same message with amazing authority? The chance is zero!
This miracle will provide profound proof that their work and calling is divinely ordained. This simple miracle will also confound and offend the religious leaders of Earth. Wake Up America Seminars, Inc. WUAS is not a church, nor does it endorse any denomination. Our focus is singular: We are dedicated to proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ and His imminent return. We are delighted that people of all faiths are diligently using the Bible study materials produced by WUAS.
All study materials are based solely on the Bible alone. Your article, "The , servants and the Numberless Multitude" was so indepth, enlightening and informative. It was greatly appreciated. It helped to clarify some very important issues and areas of confusion, such as, the fact that the , can be taken from every tribe nation, religion, geographical region, language, etc and are not just "Jews" in terms of belonging to the Jewish race. Also, thank you for having the courage to say that Christ will not choose the mega church leaders or televangelists or a particular religious organization or group and you have provided a very compelling explanation for this— and especially for advising that Christians might have to choose between their love and service to the church versus their service and love for God especially in the end times.
So many people confuse service to church and adherence to its customs and requirements as the quint essential quality of being a good Christian — when there is a distinction between the formal worship through church and the true faith and practice of faith in every day life. Being religious or even devoutly religious i. Your article has given so much food for thought. Thank you so much for putting in so much time and thought into the article and sharing it with us freely.
Please continue doing so. God bless.
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Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I agree with your observations. Unfortunately, this study turned out to be much longer than I had intended, but there is so much confusion on this topic and so many places where a person can get derailed that I tried to leave "no stone unturned. Well done sir, for a well articulated study. But the general opinion is that, the , will preach after the rapture, during the 7years tribulation. Though i don't subscribe to this, but ill like to know your opinion as regards that.
Thanks sir. You asked for my thoughts on the rapture and the 7 years of tribulation. I wish there was a pre-tribulation rapture, but I do not find a pre or a mid-tribulation rapture in Bible prophecy. Also, I do not find the 70th week to be in the future! I believe the 70th week of years occurred immediately after the 69th week of years.
I believe the Great Tribulation will last 1, days Daniel In fact, Daniel will be resurrected at the end of the 1, days to receive his reward! Daniel I hope you will have time to give these studies some consideration. Feel free to share with your friends! One of these things just doesn't belong…. There's a problem with your claim that the ", are only males. Please consider four points:. Romans ,27 "Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Joel speaks about God's Spirit being poured out on His servants in the last days, both men and women! Joel "Even on my servants, both men and women, I will pour out my Spirit in those days. Rev ,4 "Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.
Finally, we know that Jesus is able to make the stones testify if human beings are unwilling to do His calling:. Luke "I tell you," he replied, "if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out. It is ironic that many men refuse to believe that God would include women within the , when their first teachers were their mothers! Hello everyone.. Now im not belong to any religious and i never will. But i live my life by buddha teaching, but i beliving there is god and creators.
Im really got confused about chosen by god.. I ve spoked to god once it was 18 years ago and he was told me to go save the world , so here im doing his works.. You just put dout in my faith, should i stop fighting your war!! Because it sound like god dont really care no one else but jews…let me tell you one thing that make a brave warrior.. Thank you for your response. I am happy to learn that you dedicated to God. According to Bible prophecy, the world as we know it is about to come to an end. The remainder of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation will soon be fulfilled.
At the end of the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return and remove the righteous and destroy the wicked. Judging from your comments, I think you have misunderstood the identity of the , The new covenant initiated by Jesus just before He died, defines a Jew as a born-again person who believes in Jesus as the Savior of the world!
Romans ,29; Galatians ,20; Hebrews You must be logged in to post a comment. Menu Home Who is Jesus Christ? And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel: Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand.
Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. Exodus ; Deuteronomy 33 When Moses ascended Mount Sinai to meet with God for forty days, many Israelites fell into idolatry while Moses was gone by worshiping the golden calf which Aaron built.
Numbers The Tribes of the , The tribe of Dan is not included in the list of tribes in Revelation 7. Bible References to the , Because the book of Daniel has been unsealed, we have four valid rules of interpretation. Revelation , , , The four angels do not hurt Earth until the , are sealed. Revelation The , will be the first to receive the seal of God. Revelation They will be presented to God as the firstfruits of the Great Tribulation.
They will not be defiled with women and they will travel with Jesus wherever He goes. Revelation Unlike the numberless multitude who will come out of the Great Tribulation, the , will be numbered. Revelation , 9, 14 The , will experience and endure the sufferings of Christ. They will be honored above the rest of the redeemed. No one else will be able to sing their song. Revelation , 3 No lie or falsehood will be found in the mouths of the , Revelation The , will visibly wear the names of the Father and Son on their foreheads throughout eternity.
Revelation ; Revelation , 4 The , will be Jews, descendants of Abraham. Revelation Now that these eight specifications have been summarized, a few remarks about each one may prove to be helpful. Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: , from all the tribes of Israel. The time has come for judging [avenging the blood of] the dead [martyrs], and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your saints and those who reverence your name, both small and great — and for destroying those who destroy the Earth.
Matthew The Difference Between Prophets and Saints Perhaps a larger selection of Bible texts will clarify why John differentiates between saints and prophets. Summary We close the first specification on the , with a summary deducted from the evidence examined thus far: Even though there is no way to determine who the twelve tribes of Israel are, we know the twelve tribes of Israel exist because God will select and seal 12, from each tribe before the four angels hurt Earth.
Consider the following brief scenario which will be presented in greater detail in the next chapter of this book: The Bible says there are seven angels that stand before God. The Appointed Time of the End Will the sealing of the , be determined by character or by timing? Before we leave Question 2, please consider the following points: Parallels to Consider According to Rule One of apocalyptic prophecy, each apocalyptic prophecy has a beginning point and ending point in time.
Counting 1, Days Backward from 6, th Year Chart Four Purposes for Seals In Bible times, seals were used for four purposes. Notice how the sequence unfolds: The first people to stand before the judgment bar of Jesus while alive will be the , As you might expect, this was very painful. When the call comes to be a servant of the Lord God during the Great Tribulation, the , will have a choice to abandon their unbelieving families to serve the Lord.
This will be very painful. As a group, the , will be scattered all over the world. Many of them will be married and their spouses may or may not love the Lord as they do. Their devotion to God will be pure. The , will, like Abraham, be willing to slay their only son if God were to command it. This kind of devotion to God is uncommon. Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
Isaiah This rather severe and irreversible procedure arose for two practical reasons: First, the service of eunuchs was desirable to kings because eunuchs were not encumbered with wives and familial relationships that could interfere with their work. Eunuchs were at the disposal of their king at all times and they often held positions of significant authority.
Acts Second, kings knew that eunuchs could not produce an heir to their throne. Therefore, kings trusted eunuchs to oversee the most contentious and dangerous part of their kingdom, their harem. As firstfruits of the harvest, the , will become the property of Jesus our High Priest. In this sense, a person could say the , will be bound like eunuchs to King Jesus.
The , will form a personal entourage that will attend Jesus wherever He goes. Revelation The , will be highly honored throughout eternity because, like their father Abraham, they exalted the call of God above everything else. Everyone on Earth will be put through this four step process: Every nation, kindred, tongue and people will hear the terms and conditions of salvation through the testimony of the , Everyone will be informed that Jesus is the Creator and He commands respect and worship on His holy day.
Because the laws and penalties enacted by the crisis government will directly conflict with the laws and penalties of God, everyone will be forced into a difficult choice. Everyone will suffer wrath. Those people who obey the laws of God will suffer first. Those who obey the laws of man will suffer greatest, but both groups will suffer. Everyone will be tested with persecution because persecution exposes our highest allegiance. If we love our lives more than we love God, persecution will expose this. If we love God more than life, persecution will expose this, too. All the people who refuse to obey Jesus will have no choice but to receive the mark of the beast.
Revelation A certain amount of knowledge existed during New Testament times about the sealing, but it was not experienced or put in its proper context. The apostle Peter thought he was living at the end of the world. Notice these verses. On the day of Pentecost in A. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray. See how the farmer waits for the land to yield its valuable crop and how patient he is for the autumn and spring rains.
This is how we know it is the last hour. So let us put aside the deeds of darkness and put on the armor of light. Daniel , 9 A Sealed Judgment Consider the following three statements: At the present time, we know the , have not been sealed because the Great Tribulation has not begun. A testing time is not only coming, but it is also necessary. Jesus will test the living and seal people who love Him and choose to put their faith in Him.
The sealing of the saints will occur during the Great Tribulation after they have successfully completed the four steps described earlier. For you are the seal [as in a validating seal — similar to the seal of a Notary Public] of my apostleship in the Lord. And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed [marked as the property of Christ] for the day of redemption. He anointed us, set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. I call God as my witness that it was in order to spare you [from rebuke] that I did not return to Corinth.
This mystery is that through the gospel [of Jesus Christ] the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel , members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. The Early Rain of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost Jesus knew, from His own experience, that His disciples could not make headway against the ignorance and arrogance of Judaism without a manifestation of divine power, because it is not possible for one man to prove the superiority of his religion over that of another.
Through the Spirit, Peter and John healed a beggar who had been crippled from birth. Acts 3 Peter, made bold by the power of the Holy Spirit, spoke forcibly. Acts 4 Ananias and his wife, Sapphira, were slain by the Spirit for lying to Peter. Acts 5 The apostles were released from jail during the night by an angel. Acts 5 Seven deacons were chosen under the direction of the Holy Spirit. Acts 6 The deacon Stephen performed great signs and wonders. Acts 6 Stephen was martyred as his face shone with glory! Acts 7 Philip performed signs and wonders.
Acts 8 Peter and John went to Samaria. The Holy Spirit was poured out on believers. Acts 8 Philip was mysteriously transported to baptize the Ethiopian eunuch. Acts 8 Saul was converted. Acts 9 Cornelius was given a vision. Peter was given a vision. Peter was sent to the home of the Gentile, Cornelius. The Holy Spirit was poured out on Gentile believers.
Acts 10 These twelve events and I am sure there were hundreds more, but not recorded in the Bible are highlighted to show that the early Christian movement succeeded because the Holy Spirit was active. The Holy Spirit at the Great Tribulation Paul, himself, became a convert to Christianity through a miraculous conversion. Mark , 18 This view of Mark , 18 is a distortion of the purpose and mission of the Holy Spirit.
Please consider this: Holy Spirit power will be poured out on all flesh during the great tribulation. Summary The , are called firstfruits in Revelation because they will be the first to be sealed. Notice how these uses apply to the sealing that is coming: Seals were used in ancient times to certify the authenticity of a document or transaction. Esther , Jeremiah The seal of God will certify the authenticity of the , as His servants. Seals were used in ancient times to prevent tampering or change. Daniel ; Matthew , 66 After they are sealed, the , and the saints will be secure from the attraction of the carnal nature.
Seals were used in ancient times to show approval and ownership. Seals were used as locks in ancient times to secure property or secrets. Specification 4 — The , Will be Numbered Three important distinctions between the , and the numberless multitude that many people overlook are outlined in verses The , are numbered and the numberless multitude cannot be counted. This feature indicates there will be two distinct groups of people living during the end time, a small group of prophets and a large group of saints.
The Bible indicates the , will be the firstfruits of the harvest. The Bible says the numberless multitude in Revelation 7 will consist of people who came out of the Great Tribulation. The third rule of apocalyptic prophecy does not allow the number , to be symbolic. Rule Three requires the Bible to define the meaning of a symbol if a prophetic element is thought to be symbolic. In other words, if the number, ,, is a symbolic number, the Bible has to define the meaning of the symbol. We cannot make up our own meanings to symbols.
There are no symbolic numbers in the Bible. God does not use one number to represent another number. Numbers can be used in analogous ways Psalm , and numbers can be translated according to the Jubilee calendar Rule Four of apocalyptic prophecy , but numbers themselves are always literal. Consider the math in this case: 12, people are sealed from each of the twelve tribes and this produces a literal total of , people. After the Second Coming The following verses describe a wonderful scene that occurs after the Second Coming. Specification 5 — The , Will Endure the Suffering of Christ This specification is not often discussed, because it is poorly understood.
Revelation Two Levels of Suffering Jesus suffered on two levels for our salvation. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him. They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. Specification 8 — The , Will be Jews Descended From Abraham Note: If, out of curiosity, you have jumped over the other specifications to read this one first, I hope you will be sure to read the other seven specifications in their order because there is a progressive order to this presentation on the , No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body , and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. Genesis 12 When Abraham arrived in the land, God made an unconditional promise to Abraham that his descendants would inherit the land for generations to come. Genesis ; Centuries later, God honored His promise and gave the land of Canaan to the twelve tribes of Israel at the time of the Exodus.
Exodus 12 While in the wilderness, God informed Israel that even though they would possess the land of Canaan, it would not belong to them. Leviticus They were granted the privilege of living in the land for as long as they obeyed the Lord. If they chose to rebel against the Lord, He promised to evict them from the land. Leviticus ; , 34 Knowing they would eventually be evicted from the land, God also promised to restore them to the land of Canaan if they would repent of their sins while in exile. Leviticus Over the course of centuries, Israel repeatedly rebelled against God. Ezekiel 23 In fact, Israel defiantly refused to fulfill the purpose for which God had separated them from all other nations!
Exodus 19 So, God had the ten tribes in the northern part of the country evicted by Shalmaneser V in B. Ezra 7 According to the prophecy in Daniel 9, Jesus arrived on time. He was baptized at the beginning of the seventieth week A. Because Israel had fallen into defiant apostasy again , they rejected and crucified the Messiah. My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, do not show favoritism.
However, His unconditional covenant to Abraham still remains, and everyone who receives Christ as his or her Savior will be counted as the offspring of Abraham. Galatians 3 and 4; Ephesians 2 and 3 God also made it clear that in His sight, a Jew a chosen person is not determined by biological birth or physical circumcision.
Romans , 29; Romans Instead, the twelve tribes consist of people who have faith in God and a circumcised heart Jeremiah ; Romans , as did Abraham their father John The bottom line is that the only people going to Heaven are those who lived as Abraham did — by faith! Thus, all Israel will be saved in the end because Israel consists of believers!
Romans 10 and 11 After Earth is purified by fire at the end of the thousand years Revelation 20 , the Holy City will descend to Earth. Revelation 21 It is so large that it will encompass the whole land of Canaan! When the Holy City descends, two wonderful promises will be fulfilled. Summary There is no question that the , will come from the twelve tribes of Israel.
Closing Statements We have examined eight specifications about the , I have presented the following conclusions: The , will be men and women. They will be spokespeople for God during the Great Tribulation. The Great Tribulation will begin immediately after they are selected and sealed. The , will be the first to have their carnal natures mysteriously removed. Their devotion to Jesus will not be compromised by family relations. As firstfruits, the , are numbered. They are set apart from the numberless multitude, the end time harvest, which is the fruit of their labor.
The , will experience and endure the sufferings of Christ. The , will not compromise the words that Jesus gives them to speak. They will speak the truth without regard for the consequences. The , will visibly wear the names of the Father and Son on their foreheads throughout eternity. The , will be Jews, the seed of Abraham, heirs of the promise through Christ. Additional Notes on Chapter 11 Through the years, I have been asked various questions about the , that you may want to consider. What is the significance of selecting , people from the twelve tribes? Why does God choose , people and ignore the religious systems of the world?
But, here are six reasons why God cannot use them: The glory of doing the impossible, proclaiming the gospel to the whole world in 1, days belongs to God, not man. The seven religious systems of the world are corrupt. They cannot and do not speak for God. They can neither correctly explain the everlasting gospel, nor can they properly explain the plans and purposes of God for the Great Tribulation.
Most people agree that God does not save people because of church affiliation. Salvation is not gained through membership in an organization. In fact, if God was going to use a religious organization to proclaim the everlasting gospel during the end time, church affiliation would prove to be an insurmountable problem. Consider the human trait called prejudice. You and I both know that some people would rather die and go to hell than to join another church or even worse, join the church of someone who has offended them.
For example, let us suppose that God looked down on Earth and declared a particular sect within the Moslem faith to have the truth for the end time. How many Catholics, Jews and Protestants do you think would join with Moslems in order to be saved? Or is saving face a higher priority than investigating and reporting? I can tell by this latest blog that you are still on damage control trying to find a way out of this mess. That is understandable.
Here is a question I have not seen asked yet. I don't understand how so many people can have so many questions yet NONE of these questions are ever addressed. Why does the "official" story get countless articles and air-time from the media but nothing of this subject? It is very suspicious to say the least. Please just answer me that. There is obvious questions that people want investigated. Material of events actuality covering all subject areas, including politics, foreign affairs etc.
Includes content generated by News. I would have given you the benefit of doubt if you had gone about finding and exposing the original source of the premature "breaking news", like any serious investigative journalist would do. Now with these two blog comments you've exposed yourself, not necessarily as part of any conspiracy, but definitely as part of the cover-up.
Gina, that they are supposedly trying to address the ignoring of the collapse of WTC7 some five and a half years later should tell you all you need to know about how screamingly obvious a government conspiracy this is. Do you think it slipped their collective mind back then? Give me a break. I'm aware of a few problems with "Loose Change", but you now ad " Mysteries" to your list of movies with "many mistakes". What is wrong with you people?! You report the mysterious collapse of a building 20 minutes before it actually happens and you expect us to believe you guys didnt have some form of foreknowledge?
Everyone knows Loose Change is filled with errors even the creators know that. That is why they are making a final cut. Please do continue. No, you are not part of a conspiracy. You don't have to be. It seems more like you are a pawn. Who in the world could know a building would collapse, so certainly? Especially when it's unprecedented Those of us with half a brain don't believe you. It is quite sad what you have become over on that side of the Atlantic.
It was bad enough that the US became a fascist state-we are a young country, haven't had foreign enemies invade us, our people are fairly ignorant. I expected more from Europeans. I notice that no other European governments or press are speaking up about the obvious lies of A truly sad world it has become, we that read "", you traitors to humanity have no conscience. Oh, you "nonbelievers", pull your heads out. We Truthers will have to take over your pitiful realities. Here's how the BBC can make amends.
Track down the firefighters who were allegedly warning of the impending collapse of Building 7. Interview them and have them give a detailed explanation of why they would have been specifically concerned about the structural integrity of Building 7, given the fact that fires have never brought down a steel frame building and that we know of no similar warning regarding the other far more seriously damaged buildings of the WTC complex.
Were they surprised by the manner in which the building collapsed? If not, why not? What did they see that day and what in their background knowledge of building design would have allowed them to predict such a thing? Now, my dear Gina. Are you seriously trying to compare the work of BBC journalists to a couple of college kids working without a budget from their computers? That would be shameful if it wasn't so laughable. Particularly since Dylan Avery et. There is a lot of home work to be done by the BBC. Come up with something real! No story telling anymore! Who first told the news services that the building was about to collapse?
What was the initial source? Why did they think a steel structure building would collapse due to fire? That's unheard of, you know. Dig deeper, Mr. Do your job. Put some people on this who can study it for more than one lousy week. What we are seeing in is the separation of humanity into 2 groups: the sheep and the goats. Sheep not meant here in the perjorative sense. The goats will fight tooth and claw to supppress the truth because they are without truth or decency as spiritual beings.
The WTC7 demolition looks a lot like those old hotels in Las Vegas collapsing into the sands of time. This is the type of explanation that arises when there are more fingers to push the "Save" button than there are fingers feverishly trying to employ the "delete" button. The truth is that without all those save fingers, there would be no explanation at all from the BBC. Just more disappeared video and silence. Come on folks.. Although publically funded, they generate many millions selling programmes and merchandising. And today they tied up a major deal with Google.
For all their pompous and self-righteous delusion of journalistic integrity and impartiality, they are hugely conservative by nature and their function is to maintain the status quo. We forget that the BBC Iraq reporting was always solidly pro-war. A comprehensive study by Media Tenor, the non-partisan institute, analysed the war coverage of some of the world's leading broadcasters and found that the BBC allowed less dissent than all of them, including the US networks.
So Richard Porter's right, there's no story here, there never really has been, move along now, the BBC will warn us if anything bad is going to happen. We can trust them. They are our moral guardians, teaching our young, supporting communities, watching over us. They are consumate professionals, the world's best broadcasting organisation, trusted across the globe. Move on now, this is where it ends, there's no story here. Like the American media, you continue to shirk your responsibility to the people to inform and enlighten them, rather you prefer to deceive and dupe them.
At what point did the integrity of the BBC slip away? When did you change from the seeker of truth to the purveyor of propaganda? And why, now that you are discredited, do you continue to duck and dive and to advance the increasingly obvious BIG LIE?
Who Are the 144,000 and What Is Their Purpose?
Of course, your complicity has cost the lives of countless innocents and to admit the truth exposes your blood-soaked hands. But the sources would have had everything to gain in shaping the media's perception of what exactly happened to WTC Keep in mind that not only did the report state that the building had collapsed, in the affirmative and without qualifiers, but also contained information as to WHY it collapsed "weakened" , the precise number of storeys, that there were no casualties etc.
Whoever issued that pre-scripted "breaking news" and dispersed it to the media didn't want reporters and anchors to even begin to speculate. The cock-up was that this report was released too early, and it's thanks to BBC's innocence and unfamiliarity with the New York skyline that this is now public knowledge. CNN's Aaron Brown, who received the same information but realised it couldn't be right in mid-sentence, managed to somehow wiggle his way through his segment.
The cut of the live feed just about 10 minutes before the actual event is another smoking gun in need of further investigation. Was it a mere coincidence oh - yet another one! If the latter, who had the capability to do so? Okay, so your excuse is that the BBC News doesn't know how to do it's job because everybody was confused. So, you guys get your news from other news agencies, if that was the case how come the BBC were the only ones reporting the collapse 20 minutes to it actually happening.
You still are avoiding the question, who was the source of your information? I find it extremely hard to believe your excuses since you can clearly see the building in the background, so if it was a mistake as you guys claim that means there should be some reporters being fired here for messing up the most important event of the century so far.
You report the the WTC-7 had already fallen when it was still clearly standing, and your "explanation" is that other BBC outlets were doing the same? Where did these erroneous reports originate? So far you have written two articles about this, but have come no closer to answering the fundamental question. Yes, it might have been local reports. It might have been a wire service.
It might even have been some random guy who saw a "bulge. You are supposed to be a news organization, not a PR damage control firm. Why is my BBC license fee being used to research and respond to these halfwit tin-foil hat buffoons? It's going to be hilarious to watch all this new evidence to be put in with the other evidence and have you try to fob that off Why don't you want to disclose who made your news agency look like the south end of a northbound horse?
Now, I never even thought of accusing BBC of being part of any conspiracy until you brought it up. Since you keep denying something you were not accused of, I have to wonder what's up with that? This reminds me of the time when I stole a piece of grape bubble gum when I was 3 and told my mother, before she even accused me that I didn't steal the bubble gum.
Is your ad hominem attack from the blog posts you made intended to squelch any and all questions by any and all people who want to know who your source is? Is it to incite those who have disdain for "conspiracy theorists" to come to your aid by focusing on conspiracy as opposed to honest people asking you an honest question?
Being labeled a conspiracy nut has long lost it's punch and I suggest that you grow up and act like the representative of a respected news agency you are supposed to be. Your boss needs to take a look at the foolishness you have put forth this week and put someone else on this issue since it appears that you are not capable of coherent discourse on the matter.
And you lack the will to bring it to a satisfactory close. Even if there wasn't a story before, your posts are creating one. And as others have said, people are not going to shut up about this, even if you choose to ignore the issue, so it is not up to you, sir. Compare the number of responses you guys get on this issue than any of the other editorial blogs. Think about it. This topic is what people want to talk about. However, I'd like to put forth one question: As people apparently knew or at least strongly believed that WTC7 was going to collapse, how is it possible that we still don't know why it collapsed?
Let alone why it collapsed nearly in a free fall time? Quote from that report: "The specifics of the fires in WTC 7 and how they caused the building to collapse remain unknown at this time. Although the total diesel fuel on the premises contained massive potential energy, the best hypothesis has only a low probability of occurrence. Further research, investigation, and analyses are needed to resolve this issue. Even if NIST will one day finish their report and present a possible theory of the reason of the collapse, this will not explain the foreknowledge.
On a day to day basis it may manifest itself as a cultural self censorship, but the reality is - the BBC has to keep Her Majesty's Government happy. If there ever was a grassroots mass poitical movement in the UK that mirrored those in Venezuela or the Ukraine and truly challenged the powers that be - the "progressive, humanist" BBC would be the first weapon weilded by the establishment to undermine dissent. Who knows, in just a few years, people with the views expressed in this comment section could well be described by a presentable and attractive newsreader with a calm, measured voice as "terrorist sympathisers.
Answer this question please. Why was there no follow up after WTC7 actually fell? You and other news outlets reported a building collapsing 30 minutes early but none of you so called news outlets even mentioned you made a mistake. Why was no one after WTC7 really collapsed apologizing to the audience for the mistake? By not saying anything and pretending as if you didn't report it early you have made yourself a target.
Not a single one of these people believed then, or believes now, that the buildings at Ground Zero were destroyed by a controlled demolition. It seems that the farther away people live from a traumatic event, the easier it is for them to believe fantastic things about it.
It is important to remember that it was known at the time that all the Trade Center site buildings were built over a huge cofferdam - known to engineers who worked on the Trade Center complex or had maintained it by the slang term of "The Bathtub. But, as visitors to the cleared Trade Center site can still see, this is a huge cofferdam, which is several blocks in extent north and south, and dozens of feet deep.
It was the few of its kind ever used in skyscraper construction and was meant to compensate for the possibility that much of the ground around Manhattan Island's borders was not quite as stable as it should be, because it had originally been underwater and had been reclaimed with landfill down the centuries.
Likely, much of that concern was communicated to the many reporters on the ground that horrific day in a confused fashion and that may account for media reports which seem to anticipate the last major building collapse which for some reason is now the main preoccupation of conspiracy theorists.
Richard, Perhaps it's time for you to you take an 'early retirement' to 'spend more time with your family'. Your response to the many valid and pointed questions is, quite frankly, very sad.. I have posted about 6 comments, none of which you or your 'gatekeepers' have had the decency to publish..
I would make a suggestion Would make very interesting viewing and judging by the number of posts here would break the all-time record of viewers being Den telling Angie about a divorce in Eastenders or the Morecambe and Wise Xmas Show from time immemorial.. How has the BBC descended to this farcical situation? Hang your head in shame Mr Porter.. In , the New York Times reported that Larry Silverstein leased WTC 7, but first had to reinforce the structure in order to house his high tech operation.
Quoting from the article:. MORE than tons of steel - requiring 12 miles of welding - will be installed to reinforce floors for Salomon's extra equipment. This is why this building was chosen for New York's emergency operations bunker. Yet WTC buildings closer the the towers WTC5 and 6 were much more severely damaged, not reinforced, engulfed in flames and had to be professionally demolished several days later. Someone knew that WTC7 was coming down and offered the official explanation as to why as well. Find out who prematurely put out that press release and you will find out one person who knew of the plan to take it down.
Who was it Richard? I would like to ask Guliani the same question as he is on tape predicting it's future collapse as well. Thats right folks, nothing to see here, move along. Those of us who follow world events realized a long time ago the msm "news" is simply entertainment for the masses, the main aim being not to inform but to sell soap. How lamentable that there is no such thing as investigative journalism in the western world anymore. How many stories a day do you kill in fear of your advertisers? Whatever happened to speaking truth to power?
I hope they pay you well Mr Porter. The symetrical implossion of WTC 7 at near gravity speed could only have been caused by a planned demolition. I MUST point out something that nobody seems to have considered. That the footage is faked. I find it very difficult to believe that only one person on the planet had recorded this..
Bible References to the 144,000
No way. Everybody was recording that day. The window panes in back of the reporter would make it easier to install earlier footage from the point of her dialogue. Another thing, she keeps stepping to the left in front of the 7 building to show the smoke, yet she's talking about the 7 building and seemingly pointing toward the smoke of the other collapsed towers or what was emanating from the basement of building 7.
That does'nt make sense. Why would she continually step in front of the subject matter? Unless the background that is there now is not the background that was there when the report was aired. I admit that in this point in time I think the video was faked. I question who originally posted it and their timing.
Why now? Hold on to straw despite all evidence telling you that straw is just a figment of your imagination. Here are their current collapse theories. Vertical progression of the initial local failure occurred up to the east penthouse, and as the large floor bays became unable to redistribute the loads, it brought down the interior structure below the east penthouse; and. Triggered by damage due to the vertical failure, horizontal progression of the failure across the lower floors in the region of floors 5 and 7 that were much thicker and more heavily reinforced than the rest of the floors resulted in a disproportionate collapse of the entire structure.
This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements. I guess Osama snuck in and planted the explosives?
Does he still work for the CIA? The mass media is worthless.. You are part of the conspiracy because you failed doing your work: instead of reporting, asking questions, and verifying facts, you and other mass media outlets degraded the profession to a propaganda instrument. You only repeat what is given to you by press agencies and governments. Nothing more. No questions asked. There are thousands of unanswered questions around these catastrophes, but instead of asking the authorities for acceptable answers, the media just wash our brains with propaganda they get from them.
This is your failure, this is your crime, this is your part of the conspiracy. And that's true regardless if the crimes were executed by the alleged Arabic terrorist or anyone else. Even if it happened exactly as the authorities claim what everyone doubts , even then it is all a conspiracy you take part in , because the attacks was abused for starting illegal wars, power grab, and suppression of civil liberties. And here you failed again to ask questions and haunt the responsible authorities until they resign and quit their jobs.
It is the fault of the media who has the access to the authorities and can ask them question, that the question are still unanswered, 5 year later. It is your fault that conspiracy theories spread more and more. If there were satisfactory answers, there would be no need for conspiracy theories. But when the passport of the ringleader terrorist Atta was miraculously found in the rubble, I woke up and realized there must be something very wrong if the media is able to feed us with such evident propaganda.
Since then the things got only worse - more and more questions popped up every day. Where were you, Richard? Why did not you ask how is it possible that a paper passport survives such a terrible crash without any damage, while all black boxes evaporate? Why did not you ask how is it possible that the WTC7 collapsed in a perfectly symmetrical implosion, Richard?
Why did not you ask why the terrorists took a luggage full of flight manuals and Korans, and conveniently "lost" it during checkout so that it could be found? Well, it has no sense to continue - there are not 20 or 50 of such uncleared questions, there are hundreds and thousands of them. There will be no peace until we know the answers.
So Richard, I am sorry, but you are part of the conspiracy. You are guilty of the misinformation. Honest mistakes or not, you did nothing to bring us the truth. Not that I know what the truth is, but you did absolutely nothing to help us getting it. Oh one last thing, I notice a lot of 'cock-ups' regarding posts, please be good enough to allow democratic exchanges- surely you agree with democracy, Richard? Problem is, there are way too many holes in the official story. It's a real conundrum no matter how you look at it.
It's difficult to believe the official conspiracy but it's just as difficult to accept the whole "inside job" scenario. In a normal catastrophe the authorities refuse to be drawn about what happened in the first few hours or days, they refuse to be drawn. A myth was deliberately created. That this is true can be divined from a glance at the TV footage of the first hour. Unless he lived above the studio he would have needed to leave home to get there before the first plane struck. All over the world, the myth appeared within hours because it was deliberately fed in by disinformation merchants.
Despite the protestations of the BBC, and the scoffing of those who have so studiously not bothered to look at the evidence, this image of the BBC reporter standing in front of the skyline and reporting the collapse of Building 7 half an hour in advance will never go away.
It is like turning up footage of the second gunman on the grassy knoll. And then losing it. You've now stated that the information probably came from "one or more of the news agencies. So if it's not too much trouble,maybe you could try to find out which one and maybe even where they got the information from The Conspirators would indeed have been interested in spreading word that Bldg.
Remember, no plane hit it, which begs the question, why the hell would it come down? But they had to bring it down, because it was wired with explosives and it was one of their main objectives to begin with. Surely flight 93 was meant to hit it but failed to do so, which must have led to some confusion and anxiety. When it was decided that they were going to "pull it", they needed to plant some seeds of expectation-make it seem like a logical yet not particularly noteworthy ripple effect of the attack. My post will be number about 48 in the series.
It's embarrassing. Thanks for the debunking links Matthew we'll be sure to look those up! This whole episode stinks 'it seems' or so it has been reported by someone else that we don't really know but we trust what they are saying! And we have promised not to tell on them! Then, pray tell, why did you put out the propaganda piece in a failed attempt to debunk any effort by honest people to find out what happened on ? The conspiracy mob has it's clown-like vocal minority, but many if not most just want rational answers to fairly sensible questions. We live in an age of PR, marketing, legalese, rhetoric and spin.
It can be difficult to figure out which institutions are providing honest, informed, reliable info from those focussed on share value, trying to alter perceptions ultimately in self interest. I've always considered the BBC among the former, with it's public-funded charter giving it a level of journalistic freedom. September 11th is one of those generation defining events. Everyone remembers where they were when they heard. It's natural that people would take a historical interest in the finer details of the story. I think the conspiracy theories emerge when people don't feel that the questions they have are being voiced by the media.
They find themselves in a story full of locked doors, and start to guess what must lay behind. I still trust that if the BBC had the keys, you would unlock the doors for us, and that you are seekers of information, not guardians of it. What doesn't impress me is the fact that there aren't a stream of pro-BBC replies and 'sympathetic to the official story' posts to Mr Porter's blogs.
You say it is your policy to keep "roughly one third" of all your output. I'm not entirely clear on this concept, I must admit. When are these decisions made? One third of a week's output? A month's? A year's? Exercising due diligence would suggest whatever made up the one third of output from, say, the month of September , everything from the 11th would be in there. Does it seem remotely competent or responsible to you to have tossed or misplaced any of it?
Another question: Could you have addressed this item without having the original footage in your possession? You had parallel material, so your initial statements insinuating that you would need to see the footage in question in order to "clear up the issue one way or another" must seem like stalling to many people. Was it to buy time? You return three days later with a very vague timeline about the reporting of other organizations and other BBC broadcasts as if this somehow qualifies as a source, when what you should be doing is assuring us a real investigation is under way, because Mr.
Porter, whether you like it or not, this is news now. Everything about that day will be scrutinized, and shrugged shoulders won't make questions disappear. Who made the judgement call that had everyone so convinced this collapse was imminent? This is the report you should have been working on, instead of writing a blog entry to fend off E-mails. Why do you even mention this? This has no bearing on what was known at the time of your broadcast.
These reports you cite, regarding the "course of the day," appear to be a red herring. Who was telling Mr. Esler this? Where did probable collapse turn into "collapsed? Who was their source? We want you to act like objective journalists and investigate your own reporting. If you don't make up in truth what you tried to explain away with incompetence, a dark and lasting stain will be left on your organization.
This is the time to prove yourself responsible, or else suffer a scar inflicted by the growing independent media. I am not a "conspiracy theorist". Atleast I never thought I was. I watched the clip in question and I could not find a smoking gun. It was mildly suspiciouse but I could explain most of away.
However after reading Mr Porter's explanations, I beginning to think something is going on. The explanations simply do not compute. A very good attempt and better than last time but I am still unconvinced, sorry. I am not a conspiracy theorist, or 'fantasist' as someone called it. By the way,to the man who posted that, look up the meaning of the two words in future before you go splashing them about. The term is 'theorist'. It just makes more grammatical sense.
If it is perfectly innocent and it may well be then please someone at the BBC make a public statement on television during the main news. Yes, people may still not believe what is said and are unlikely to but to people like myself who where on the fence before they saw this, keeping it quiet looks very suspicious. Come on BBC your name is being dragged through the mud here. Mr Porter please quit stonewalling. As simple as the films showing the hit on the Pentagon. Oops sorry. This is all quite humorous. Remember that the media is just a magicians act creating a story with sleight of hand.
Occasionally the trick becomes accidentally exposed as in the case of the premature Bldg 7 announcement. The media does no investigation but only mimicks whatever it is told to say. This story is a perfect example of that fact. No I don't believe the BBC is part of a conspiracy. I do blame them for providing substandard journalism during the lead up to the Iraq war and allowing the lies of Bush and Blair to go unchallenged but that's another topic.
What's really odd to me is that right up until the collapse of buildings 1 and 2 there was never an event of a steel frame building collapsing. Right up until the tragic event emergency crews and building security personal were trying to get people to stay in place which was the policy for fighting fires in skyscrapers. There was recorded message that played over all the security loud speakers in both of the buildings instructing that persons return to their office or desk. Now my question why was it common knowledge among the press that buildings were in danger of and would eventually collapse when engineers and emergency professionals believed the opposite?
Why did the media "expect" the most reinforced building in the complex and one not hit by any airplane to collapse? Something is still amiss. We're still waiting. What do you do with all the old media content? If you just discard it, I would really appreciate if you would forward all coverage of to me.
Someone should really keep this material. A media organization that trusts governments, foreign or domestic, are of little use to the people. Another poster asked this valid question, "Does following this incorrect information trail not stir some interest in anyone in your organization? Shouldn't the media be skeptical of all those who have authority over people, money, and weapons? I do not believe the media should just jot notes when government agencies speak. I think they should continuously research the facts and follow leads so they can pursuit essential questions for the people.
If September 11 was just a massive "cock-up" by the government and the media, then why did no one lose their job? In this Orwellian time in which we live, the people who ask relevant questions are the dissidents; they are the ones who incur the wrath of power; they alone are ridiculed for seeking truth. This is an excellent article becuase it shows just how desperate the BBC have become and just how exposed they now look.
Maybe on a slow news day we may just about believe that you lost the tapes - but one of the most defining global events of this century and you don't even know if they were lost or destroyed? That is a scandal in itself. Who has been disciplined because of this? And no - this is the first time I have heard of one of the most secure and strongly built and reinforced buildings "bulging". It was so well constructed I would have happily gone on there for a 2 week holiday whilst it burned I am so confident it would not have collapsed.
Although now we have we now know that buildings can defy the laws of physics so that is now not an option! We have seen the raging inferno - a small flame coming out of two or three windows. Not the raging inferno you imply. You conflate legitimate questions with 'accusations of conspiracy'. The legitimate questions will continue apace. I am a Yank. That is not the point. The point is that in a year history of skyscraper construction. So, so easy. All righteousness did build thy arrow To shoot it straight into their lies Who would expect the mighty sparrow Could rid our world of all their kind?
Rising up to break this thing From family trees the dukes do swing Just one blow to scratch the itch The laws made for and by the rich It would be easy. That's Canuckistan for "what are you trying to say" Come on my friend What else are you hiding? And we made that decision to bury and we watched the videos disappear. You have seen the video on youtube etc, the building was brought down delibrately. The BBC merely jumped the gun in reporting it. To flippantly say there is no story here at the end of the piece is a sad reflection on how the BBC perceive the people of British as nothing more than children being spoon fed what their view on the world should be.
The orchestrated manipulation of the media by those within the establishment is occasionally revealed and this is just one very obvious example. Reading the other comments encourages me, it seems decent members of society are starting to question what is going on. So now we know the difference between a "reporter" and a "journalist".
When asked to report to camera that a building behind them has collapsed, a "journalist" will actually turn their head to check it has. CNN made a similar goof and its all merely part of the inept chaos that is live news coverage. Nothing to see here. Move on. Is this at the BBC's request? Yes or No, Mr Porter? Why and how was the feed mysteriously lost shortly before WTC7 actually did collapse?
Did your "investigations" touch on that Mr Porter? Yes or No? Quite obviously, the female reporter knew "the secret. I forgive them though because of the total victory they've brought us in Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran. I do rather think that this is a side issue and of very little importance. It is obvious that in the heat of reporting many conflicting stories and inaccuracies will arise and that only with time do actual facts become clearer. What I think is of concern is that the whole BBC programme about the Conspiracy Theories, seemed to go out of its way to portray the the theorists as loonies and their theories as far fetched.
Certainly, some of the individuals that the BBC managed to track down looked as though they were certifiable. There have been a number of films and programmes that have dealt with issues in detail within an hour and have asked pertinent questions and raised concerns. Unfortunately the BBC programme was dumbed down in that it dealt with issues in a very superficial way and seemed to be keen to accept official explanations without any critical input.
A rather disapointing programme and not up to the standard I would have expected. Michael wrote: Please stop invoking the "BBC is not part of any conspiracy" line in response to reader complaints. While you seem to have provided sufficient evidence that BBC World's premature report of WTC7's collapse was a simple matter of gross incompetence and nothing more, you have yet to provide answers to some very important questions: 1.
I'm not sure if it has yet collapsed but the report we have is talking about Building 7. At pm Fi Glover says "25 minutes ago we had reports from Greg Barrow that another large building has collapsed just over an hour ago. What was it Mark Twain said about a lie being halfway round the world before the truth has had a chance to get its shoes on I know this wasn't a malicious lie by Fi Glover, but that's not the point? Going off at a tangent here, but as a listener to 5Live shows like Breakfast and Drive, this doesn't surprise me.
How many times do the presenters of these programmes interview a politician or doctor or lawyer, etc. I can't believe that people are using "Occam's Razor" to try and justify a conspiracy theory that the WTC7 building. We do not know all the facts, but what is the simplest explanation? Someone made a mistake and misheard someone saying that Building 7 was likely to collapse as Building 7 was collapsing or had collapsed quite easily considering all that was going on.
Or that one of the people involved in a high level wide spread conspiracy was stupid enough not to check that the WTC7 had been brought down before he informed the press? That's blatantly untrue: posters on this thread and the previous are claiming that BBC reporters were reading a prepared script and were forwarned of the collapse of WTC They got them from trying to interpret, as they happened, multiple reports from other reporters, eyewitnesses who may be panicked , and frantic emergency services' radio communications both between each other and headquarters which may be miles away from the action.
Can't imagine how inaccurate reports could possibly be generated by people trying to cope with all that while live on-air. Must have been a secret cabal somewhere coordinating it all. Stands to reason, dunnit? Because this has all been investigated for years in tedious and pointless detail already? Could be! They'll sit behind their keyboards and grumble and the world will carry one unchanged Well, personally, I don't want to believe anything other than the truth. I find no need to 'twist' anything - the facts just don't add up for me, I have reasonable questions and legitimate doubts based on reading and watching Also Mathew, surely it would be incorrect to 'ignore' each other unless we are being offensive - simply questioning doesn't warrant ignoring - if it did, it would be a lonely world!!
I will not grumble, just enquire. As to unchanged worlds WTC 7 was severely damaged on the south side of the building and was on fire for about 7 hours.
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Firemen knew that WTC 7 was going to collapse and that fact was communicated to others including reporters. Firehouse: Chief Nigro said they made a collapse zone and wanted everybody away from number 7 - did you have to get all of those people out? Hayden: Yeah, we had to pull everybody back. It was very difficult. We had to be very forceful in getting the guys out. They didn't want to come out. There were guys going into areas that I wasn't even really comfortable with, because of the possibility of secondary collapses.
We didn't know how stable any of this area was. We pulled everybody back probably by 3 or in the afternoon. We said, this building is going to come down , get back. It came down about 5 o'clock or so, but we had everybody backed away by then. He answered, 7 World Trade Center, imminent collapse, we've got to get those people out of there. He said, we're moving the command post over this way, that building's coming down. We know that reporters were talking about the imminent collapse. Obviously the BBC got the info that building 7 was going to collapse and simply made an error is reporting that it already had collapsed.
How could it possibly make sense for the government to tell reporters to report that the building collapsed when reporters would report it anyway once they saw it had collapsed. You conspiracy guys should make an effort on internal logic. How very curious. There is no mention of a source, which is elemental to broadcast journalism, particularly live feed. This still doesn't exlain why the BBC 'knew' with journalistic certainty that Building 7 had 'collapsed' some twenty minutes before it had. Why did no one double check this information, the building was just behind the reporter?
Are we to accept that the media outlets follow each others lead without checking the source? This doesn't bode well. Roger, you have got to be joking, that was worse than the first time you tried to defend the undefendable. OK, this is really simple, just one question is all we are asking, no conspiracy crap, nothing at all, just who told you that WTC7 collapsed, that's all! Because who would want to save video of the biggest news event of the last 40 years?
Gina well reported, that the nist report is focussing on the collapse on WTC New York City is home to almost every major U. There are tens of thousand of people on the streets every day with still and video cameras, reflecting the popular tastes as well as NYC being the arts and advertising capital of the U. Plus the events of September 11th took place in one of the most densely occupied places on Earth. There is no end of documentation, professional, amateur and accidental of the events which took place. If you are far away, you can make up whatevcer stories you want.
Millions of eye witnesses with phtographic proof say otherwise. If you repeat any of them to the almost a million New Yorkers who were there that day, they would dismiss you as an uniformed idiot. This makes much more sense than any nonsense about human terrorists - who's ever heard of those? Any conspiracy theoriest left on this issue - is a waste of time, resources, and space.
So let me get this straight. You knew for nearly an hour that it "might have" collapsed, but you didn't think to ask any reporters there, any VT screen watchers, wether they had noticed any other buildings falling down. They do make a fair old racket when they go? And can anyone explain, how a supposed gravity driven collapse, threw steel beams ft away from the towers?
Gravity pushes down, not across. Quite why the BBC does not just 'fess up and say 'we reported a collapse that had not happened', goodness only knows. Instead we get:. The BBC and CNN report provides powerful circumstantial evidence that, when considered together with the direct visual evidence of WTC7 being demolished, infers that a conspiracy was concocted to destroy building 7 while simultaneously using the media to make it seem as if the building collapsed of its own accord.
The story devised to cover the WTC 7 demolition was absurd on its face, thus another conspiracy was concocted after the fact, to bury the live televised news reports because they clearly contradicted not only the visual evidence of WTC 7 being blown up, but the fact that the reports went "live" too soon, also succeeded in completely destroying the time line of events necessary for their story to "hold up" under careful scrutiny. Of course this careful scrutiny never occurred. The story has since been absolutely censored by the mainstream media and the government at large.
It would seem that they were essentially right. Their ineptitude resulted in the smoking gun which is WTC7; thus, they have effectively failed in their attempt to pull this off! It can no longer be denied. The only question remaining is, what are we the people going to do about it?
Yes, but they turned out to be inaccurate. Big difference between making a mistake that is a mistake, and making a mistake that turns out to be true; about something that hadn't happened yet. Doncha think? Respect for BBC is not enhanced by the defense offered by Mr. Porter, which, while well-meant, is wimpy and disingenuous. Find out how and why and by whom the archive material was destroyed! As that was inside the BBC, it should not be so hard to nail down. Wake up to the fact that the collapse itself is extraordinary and NOT what would be expected. Then wake up to the fact that a false report of an improbable collapse is itself suspicious.
There is a FAR bigger story here than is being looked at! BBC should launch a new and deeper investigation from these anomalies, rather than to try to close it down and say "no story" here! Are we here searching for facts or trying to find some kind of conspiracy or cover-up. What is the purpose of all this. I don't believe for one second that a government agency or some idiot in the Pentagon or the White House conspired to have some Americans killed for an ulterior motive to do with foreign policy, or to justify the invasion of Afghanistan and later Iraq or to serve the interest of Israel by tarnishing Arabs and Muslims.
But I would please urge you not to stop investigating this issue. This story has been buzzing frantically around the Internet. No-one will benefit from you refusing to look any further into it and, I suspect, it will just make matters more suspicious. If nothing else, at least try to establish finally who was the source of the original report and then we can all bother them instead of you. No matter what is said and done, millions of people around the world know that the events of September 11, were an inside job with the aid of several other countries.
This was a New World Order black flag operation. If some people are so closed minded that they do not even question the possibility, it is not surprising because the basis of global control starts with the human mind. Mind control is a major goal of those wishing to obtain global dominance. They believe in divide and conquer, constructive chaos, the ends justifies the means, and the propaganda is extensive.
Many experts have spoken out using scientific evidence proving that the official story of September 11 was a lie. There was never a full scaled investigation which in itself leads one to ask questions, a great deal of evidence was quickly shipped out of the country or destroyed and if people ask questions they are threatened or ridiculed. One question that rings true to me from a history class regarding Hitler.
Just ask the people in Iraq. What did they ever do to us? Now, their country is destroyed. Whose country will be next? And still no one is allowed to questions major events. Do not expect the media to do it. I thank all of the people that have spoken out about the truth concerning September 11, Someday the truth will be known by all. Richard your continued protesting that 'BBC is not part of a conspiricy' is neither helpful or relevant. You are making this problem worse by playing the dog in the manger. Now either that means that you have had your hand forced in your response, or you simply do not have the inclination or the guts to properly investigate this and answer the actual questions that people are posing to you.
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Either way, this reflects very poorly on your institution since you were undoubtedly guilty of a huge, huge error. That I can forgive and understand, but instead of acting like the doe-eyed victim in all this, just tell us where this report came from and we can stop focusing on your organisation and you will come out of this fiasco with your reputation intact and we can address our issues to the relevent party. Until you give us clarification as to your source you will remain solely in the firing line.
Do your job and protect your company, you are not responsible for this and frankly it should outrage you that you have been made the scapegoat. Oh no Richard, it isn't. Wow, who knew it was SO easy to get a steel-framed skyscraper to fall down in it's own footprint? Set a small fire, let it burn for a few hours and BANG, down it goes.
Neat and clean, no damage to VERY expensive surrounding real estate. How convienent, and oh so easy! Professional demolition specialists are really going to be upset, they're all irrelevant and out of jobs. Just think of all the money that could've been saved that was wasted in big cities, demolishing old buildings will silly, unnessary things like explosives. But he did qualify it by saying "it seems" and once again I think there's a danger of reading too much into what I believe was a presenter merely summarising what everyone had been saying during the previous hour.
With all due respect, sir, on listening to the original report it would seem that you are being at the very least disingenuous The correct way to provide a written form of Mr Hayton's words would be with a full stop before the "it seems Therefore your constant insistence on the use of qualifiers is not quite as described. Secondly - will you please stop muddying the waters Nobody is accusing you of being part of the "conspiracy". Once again, this is an example of your somewhat disingenous use of language and it ill befits the BBC.
You also suggest, "this is where we have to end the story. Please try and remember your role here We used to think it was quite important. Do you really think people will stay around and use the BBC as a credible news source with this smoke and mirrors treatment your giving the puplic. Sir your arguments do not stick, instead of giving childish blame shifters, give us the source, a logical reason how you were able to say that building was going to collasp or had collasped. Afterall there are only so many ways you could have known this, isnt it? The Twin Towers are both hit by planes, and both towers collapse.
Maybe because of the planes, maybe because of demolition as part of the conspiracy. So what I dont understand is WHY blow it up?? I don't believe that the bbc are part of a conspiracy or a cover up. Have you employed mystic meg as a new journalist lol. This speech was from 44 years ago by John Kennedy He must have seen the pieces falling into place way back then.
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Especially about the press. Please take a minute and watch this and hear his words. Convincing reply Mr Porter - I stand corrected. It's all still very unfortunate, but this version of events is pretty conclusive as far as I'm concerned. What's the matter?
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